Wild Sovereign Development Site

the men who hate women

Written by

moseara

in

Hi Callum! Good morning

I’d like to ask your advice as I don’t know now what to do with my free trial. Can we suspend it? Can I apply it to a different training group?

I attended two sessions at the riverside park with Chris. Was super looking forward to it and excited to commit to my fitness and wellbeing. There were incidents in both sessions which made me uncomfortable and Chris’s response has just been ‘good luck finding a new group.’ He hasn’t offered to tackle the issue and when I replied with a summary of what had made me so acutely uncomfortable I actually left early, he didn’t bother to respond at all.

I wasn’t the only one feeling uneasy. This is a female-based group in which women should be respected. We shouldn’t have to put up with our own trainer warning not to work too hard on our upper body strength because ‘Nobody likes a lady with a thick neck.’ A wave of disturbance ran through the women around me when Chris said that. Women’s bodies are our own. We’re not there for him to rate and deem more or less attractive. Women are entitled to be strong. We can be competent, powerful, fit, and active. If a professional personal trainer can’t uphold this, who will?

The second session a man standing beside me, huge guy, made an off-colour remark that I found very distressing. Being still out of condition, I lay down a moment on my mat. A woman said, hey, it’s not lying down time yet! And this man with a big smirk remarked, “Darl, it’s not that kind of establishment.”

Again, a ripple of unrest and disgust through the women present. Women were saying things like, Gross, that’s off, let’s all pretend we didn’t hear that. How disgusting that he feels it’s ok to evoke the spectre of prostitution and ‘establishments’ in which men have to bribe women for sex. How awful that even the trainer won’t speak up! (For comparison, imagine the trainer’s response if a customer made a remark of an equivalent level of racism). Women are used to being sexualised, at every opportunity, from the age of 10 or 11: most of us in this group were in our 40s, 50s and 60s so we have now been putting up with this trash for three or four decades. Why should we have to pretend not to hear sexist, degrading remarks which make women feel unsafe, in a professional training session which should be a safe space? We’re all wearing skin tight lycra and bending over with our butts in the air. It’s so upsetting that even here, your trainers don’t take care to make sure women feel welcomed and safe and respected.

I’ve told a friends and random women serving in shops etc about this encounter and their response in every single case was the same. Don’t be fooled by the fact that women are conditioned to think it’s pointless to speak out. We hate it.

Regards,

Cathoel Jorss

You might like to pass this on to your trainers to try to wake them up:

https://houseoflovers.com/literature/street-crimes/

Comments

17 responses to “the men who hate women”

  1. Helen Corr Avatar
    Helen Corr

    Well that right royally sucks! What makes Chris think that any of you give two f*&ks what unknown men like when it comes to women’s necks. What an assumption. Chris is obviously not the brightest penny in the bunch – here is hoping his employer is a bit smarter, though I am not holding my breath. As for smirky, wish I was sexy guy and his allusion to sex – what a dreamer! His assumption that none of you would throw up at the mention of sex from a man like him was wildly optimistic. Sort of reminds me of when people say they wish they had the confidence of mediocre white men. Maybe next time just mime throwing up when they speak. I’m not sure they are bright enough to understand actual words.

    Reply
    1. Cathoel Jorss Avatar
      Cathoel Jorss

      Thank you! Normally I would have bowled up to Mr Pseudosexy and told him what he had said was gross and uncalled for. I would have tried to reach him by conveying the female point of view, not that he cares. On this day, I stood wrestling with myself for the length of a song, before just walking away. I couldn’t do it. I just couldn’t muster the moral energy yet again for seven hundred thousandth time, and I thought: you know what? why should I. Why can’t he wake up into respect, all by himself.

      The song they were playing as I stood there was a kind of dance tune whose lyrics (sung by a woman) said she had the words I Love You trembling on her lips… but if she reaches out… you will be gone. I just stood there thinking, this is all songs of all time. He’s all, hey little girl, be mine, then she sings: why did you treat me this way.

      Those of us who have experienced relationships in which this was not de rigueur are, I think, very rare.

      Reply
  2. Marie Scott Avatar
    Marie Scott

    Good on you for speaking up, I hope it improves the experience for other women (and yourself if you decide to go back)

    Reply
    1. Cathoel Jorss Avatar
      Cathoel Jorss

      Thank you, Marie! It cost me some gumption. Just really the exhaustion, which I’m sure so many family find familiar, of having spoken up so many times so bravely even in more overtly hazardous situations than this, and… finding it makes zero to no difference. But still I hope you’re right.

      Reply
  3. Lou Maile Avatar
    Lou Maile

    Warm greetings sista sorry you had to experience these negative comments… what does one do ? How does one respond ?
    Do you, we stand firm and stand up for our womanhood, or do we simply walk away …
    Either way we are left feeling somehow do we confront or ignore ?
    I know the dinosaur age has long gone and I also know these kind of beings will never uplift themselves to become better humans…
    I remove myself from such backward degradation and find a female trainer who knows who she is on all levels ..
    Life is fleeting my energy is positive and I go where the flow reverberates love 💗
    May you find encouragement in these words sista and eventually find a fitness group that resonates with your energy .
    Blessings always 😊☮️💟

    Reply
  4. Simone Silvers Avatar
    Simone Silvers

    Why was there another bloke in the session? Gross

    Reply
    1. Cathoel Jorss Avatar
      Cathoel Jorss

      Yes. It seemed normal to me at first, but given this predatory behaviour and the lack of action by the management, I now see it to be a red flag.

      Reply
  5. Ola Tschajkowska Avatar
    Ola Tschajkowska

    Can you please give us an update?

    Reply
    1. Cathoel Jorss Avatar
      Cathoel Jorss

      Thank you for asking, Ola. I just now got a text message back from Chris the trainer, who had not responded since Monday. He’s just told me sorry for responding so late and that his wife is chronically ill and this week he’s been with her in the hospital. Very sorry to hear she is sick. I’m also disappointed she is being supported by a man who feels entitled to blow off this issue. He has told me he doesn’t want to discuss the issue further.

      Reply
  6. Daniela Fuchs Avatar
    Daniela Fuchs

    I more and more think that there are certain things that should not be done by men. Like being a trainer for women or gynaecologists or massage therapist for women etc. There should be boundaries that we have to set to allow us to be free of judgement, abusive behaviour and discrimination. I noticed it in a previous comment that you don’t agree with me on this (which is absolutely okay for me) but I still have the opinion that it is on us women to make the change. We have to set the boundries, we have to create protective and secure places for us, we have to make the decisions to not bring us in such situations where we can be abused. We are still too unconscious, flippant and naive about our self-determination. If we women grow stronger and stand up for our rights, men will also understand sooner or later. So before we even have to complain and point with fingers at misbehaving men, lets start to create women-friendly environments and lifestyles. Men don’t have to controll us any longer, they can learn to take care of themselves and also let us live our lives.

    Reply
  7. Heidi Mules Avatar
    Heidi Mules

    Hi Cathoel, I’m sorry that you feel upset about your recent interaction with a new fitness group.
    I was actually in attendance at the same classes you have mentioned and wanted to paint a first hand alternate light on the situation as the story you have told is one sided as it stands.
    My motivation to exercise has historically been tainted by loss of enthusiasm over time/ boredom, or insecurity about my body type. I became a member of the group you have mentioned, of whom the business owner is Chris himself, not Callum (Chris runs many of the classes as well as managing the small business himself), and immediately knew I had found my people. Members of the group come from a variety of backgrounds – women and men, old and young, LGBTIQA friendly, elite athletes through to those with low level fitness. The common ground we all have is the desire to exercise outside, have fun, work hard (mostly! ) have a laugh and to be part of a community who also are there for similar reasons. We are all able to laugh at ourselves, and laugh *with*each other. The sense of humour within the group is light, and never malicious. Not all the jokes shared will appeal to everyone, but that is the beauty of the human race – we all have differing opinions. It is this warmth and feeling of belonging to a family that brings people back.
    Chris himself is one of the most genuine and caring individuals I have met. Yes, he has a dry sense of humour that (clearly) does not appeal to everyone, but he genuinely cares about all members and is loved by every single person who takes the time to get to know him. He is one of the least sexist people I know and would be devastated by the thought he had upset anyone. Your blog is an unfair character assassination, based on one interaction.
    The other gentleman you mention in your blog, for context to everyone reading, is a retired, loved member of our fitness community, who has an established relationship with the team who attend the 915am classes you were at. Again your character assassination of this man in your blog is completely unfair and out of context. The “ripple of unrest and disgust” you mention was nothing of the sort, but rather groans from a group of friends, at someone who had made a bad ‘dad joke’. I know this, because this gentleman is known and loved for his dry sense of humour, quick wit and bad jokes.
    I’m sorry that you did not find your tribe in this exercise group, but to unfairly and publicly make untrue accusations is just morally wrong.
    I agree with you that woman should not have to put up with sexual degradation. But I equally feel strongly that *no human* should be unfairly judged, no matter what their sex, age, race, or view point is. In this instance it seems you have walked into a room, full of people you do not know, judged them without taking the time to get to know them, and written a public scathing blog with no apparent intention other than to highlight the fact that in the world, there exist people who have offended you and your sex. Might I suggest that the better option would have been to either a. Take the time to get to know the people first before judging unfairly or
    b. Recognise early that these are not your tribe, but notice that everyone else there is there voluntarily, and very happy that they have found a group of people who share their humour and desire to improve their overall health.
    I wish you all the best, and hope you are able to find another fitness group that is as beautiful and warm as the community that I have found under the guidance of Chris.

    Reply
    1. Cathoel Jorss Avatar
      Cathoel Jorss

      Hello Heidi, thanks for sharing your thoughts. There’s a lot in here so I need a little time to digest. I guess my first questions would be: are you saying that when presented as humour, racist or sexist insults are ok? And that it is those people who don’t enjoy sexist/racist ‘humour’ who should miss out on the ‘warmth and feeling of belonging that brings people back’, rather than the man making an in this case sexually degrading ‘joke’?

      Are you further saying that I should not be entitled to write about my experience, anonymously, even when I first tried to discuss the issue directly with the trainer and had been, as it then seemed, dismissed? Chris has thought better of it and I am glad of his courage. That’s not easy to do. But without it, we can’t forge any real community at all, it seems to me.

      Thirdly, what was untrue in what I said? Indeed these comments were passed in the group. Indeed women around me said things like “Gross!” which you now want to reframe as their enjoyment of shared humour. Where is the wrong? You think it’s with me, not with a man who surrounded by women in skintight lyrca will make jokes about their availability for hire via prostitution?

      Reply
  8. Mandy Partridge Avatar
    Mandy Partridge

    Spot on, Cathoel. I point it out every single time, casual misogyny is so boring and damaging, and not funny at all.

    Reply
  9. Heidi Mules Avatar
    Heidi Mules

    I’m merely saying that every story can be made to sound different when told out of context. It’s a classic tactic that the media uses to character assassinate. The story you told is very much out of context whether you accept it or not. It is your opinion but I do not share your opinion on the context of how it unfolded, hence your telling is not factual, merely your interpretation, including the fact that you have missed out context, and backstory to both comments, neither of which offended anyone else in attendance. You have every right to tell it, but it upset me how completely out of context it was told and the fact that when reading your blog I knew exactly which exercise class you were referring to, includng the fact you referred to Chris by name in a small community where it wouldn’t be hard to identify him. Why not keep it completely anonymous? Your blog states it is a women’s class. Fact: it is not. There are comments above stating it was gross that a man was in attendance which was a red flag. Does this mean that men should not be allowed to attend the class? Nowhere in his promotions does Chris ever state it is a woman’s class. Another comment states that men should not be able to train women/ be their treating Dr etc. I’m all for women’s rights and power to women, but my personal preference is to find a *person* who is the right fit for my needs, not a ‘sex’. Power to woman should be about choice, not about stripping the integrity of good people who happen to be men. Your blog, in my opinion unfairly perpetuates hate, where hate is undeserved. Your telling of the story allows others reading to unfairly misconstrue the situation.
    Let’s work as a community to give power to the *good* people, whether they be men or women.

    Reply
    1. Cathoel Jorss Avatar
      Cathoel Jorss

      Nowhere did I claim this was a women’s class. I said it had a lot of women in it and we deserve to feel safe. Trafficking, prostitution and brothels are forms of female enslavement. Would you find it equally fine if group members made jokes about slaving ships? “Good people” do not make racist, sexist, or bigoted jokes, and good people call out those who do.

      The fact you persist in using ludicrously manipulative language like ‘assassination’ and ‘tactic’ and ‘hate’ for my actions, while you insist on minimising and glossing over the actions of a personal trainer who tells women they will become sexually unattractive when they grow strong really tells us all we need to know about your priorities.

      Reply
  10. Heidi Mules Avatar
    Heidi Mules

    Mandy, the issue is that neither of the men in this story are misogynistic – not even slightly or casually – quite the opposite, and I have heard them actively stand up for women’s rights in the past. The comments, when you are aware of the context were not degrading. The better option for the writer would have been to address her concerns with the people directly (which she did, and I applaud her for this), understand the intention/ context of the comments, make a personal decision as to whether this group of people were a group that she would fit in with, and not publicly shame a person who is a hard working, genuine, caring community member, with a small business that the writer admits she has been ‘bad mouthing’ in a small community at every opportunity.

    Reply
    1. Cathoel Jorss Avatar
      Cathoel Jorss

      Where did I say that? Don’t project. It is you who are badmouthing with your noxious allegations of hate. What was the intention or context of this comment about women having thick necks, or this other comment about women providing paid sexual services to men, that makes them so very ok?

      Reply

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